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weilongfu:

lawfulgoodness:

weilongfu:

[edited for brevity]

It sounds like you and your players could probably really benefit from The Same Page Tool.  It is a questionaire/survey designed to get the GM and the players all on the “same page.”  Maybe you should bring it up the next time you all get together and see what everybody’s expectations are.  That can go a long way in avoiding both player and GM frustration.

Oh. Wow that’s awesome. Thanks for the link! I will definitely try to bring it up this Friday when we play.

As an aside, sometimse I think they just enjoy trying to frustrate me some days because they think it’s funny. :shrug:

You see, there’s really only 3 types of roleplaying games in the world:

  1. GM comes up with an adventure that s/he hopes engages the players while the players attempt to solve the puzzles and complete the quest the GM has prepared.
  2. The players decide they are going to crush the GM’s will to live, thereby proving they are better at roleplaying games than s/he is.
  3. The GM attempts to victimize the players, thereby proving that s/he is better at roleplaying games than they are.

#3 is usually reserved for Call of Cthulhu, other Lovecraftian Horror games, and a large percentage of Shadowrun.

#2 is what’s usually happening while we GMs try to drink enough to convince ourselves it’s actually #1

weilongfu:

lawfulgoodness:

weilongfu:

Ok more experienced D&D DMs on tumblr, I need your advice.

I have a PC who was Lawful Good but he got shifted to Chaotic Good. Ironically he follows my homebrew goddess of order, law, and justice. He wants to role play as a character who hates all other gods but his. And by now I’ve decided that that’s fine and reasonable enough.

But lately he has his character acting a little more irrationally. Trying to smash a quest item because it wouldn’t give him a nice bonus like it did another PC because she got to it first and putting things in the hands of statues and knocking them out before yelling at them. 

I tried to tell him that this will shift him to Chaotic Neutral if he continues, but he says that he has to act more evil before he can shift there. I believe, if he’s just doing whatever the heck he wants, then that’s not Chaotic Good and therefore he’s going to end up shifting, even if he’s not doing acts of evil. 

What do you think I should do? 

Smashing quest items and losing your temper don’t necessarily mean you aren’t Lawful Good.  Everybody has bad days, so a few outbursts aren’t necessarily problematic.  What really matters is his pattern of behavior and how his deity responds to it.  If his pattern of behavior is shifting to a more consistent irrational basis (and it isn’t cute & endearing irrational behavior like Don Quixote), then his connection with his deity should be used to get him back on course.  Any powers that are granted by his connection with his deity should be diminished if she doesn’t like the way he is acting.  She may even come down and have a talk with him (depending on his level & importance to her).

Like another commenter said, it really sounds like it’s just lazy roleplaying.  If that’s the case, have a conversation out-of-game with the player to ensure their character concept is still what it used to be and that they have a firm grip on it.  If they want to change it, provide them an avenue in-game to justify the change in character.  Alignment isn’t immutable, and your game’s plot should hopefully have some effect on the players.  If that effect alters their original alignment they shouldn’t be punished but rewarded for good roleplay.  If, on the other hand, they just want to be wacky misfit murder hobos, then perhaps the world and its deities need to start reacting to them accordingly.

The thing is that at that time, I think he said his character was frustrated. I’d be willing to retcon the night and say his character had a concussion from beating his head against the quest item. But his character seems to be escalating because of another PC just egging him on anyway, lazy role play or not. 

I want to impress upon the players that their actions have consequences, shifts in moral alignments and reactions from gods included. But sometimes they like to argue against me for the sake of arguing and sometimes they think it’s unjustified to be punished because they want to wave their hands and give me some BS that doesn’t seem to work. 

They aren’t interacting with the story, as much as I’m trying. They just go in and mess things up. Another person brought up that I might have to ask them if they just don’t want to be heroes and I’m bringing that to a vote this week. It could also be that they don’t feel firmly grounded in the setting yet, something I’ve been trying to fix, but they still really don’t seem to care. 

I guess overall my point is that I’m worried this is a slippery slope. I am attempting to nudge them back on course without having to take drastic measures. 

It sounds like you and your players could probably really benefit from The Same Page Tool.  It is a questionaire/survey designed to get the GM and the players all on the “same page.”  Maybe you should bring it up the next time you all get together and see what everybody’s expectations are.  That can go a long way in avoiding both player and GM frustration.

weilongfu:

Ok more experienced D&D DMs on tumblr, I need your advice.

I have a PC who was Lawful Good but he got shifted to Chaotic Good. Ironically he follows my homebrew goddess of order, law, and justice. He wants to role play as a character who hates all other gods but his. And by now I’ve decided that that’s fine and reasonable enough.

But lately he has his character acting a little more irrationally. Trying to smash a quest item because it wouldn’t give him a nice bonus like it did another PC because she got to it first and putting things in the hands of statues and knocking them out before yelling at them. 

I tried to tell him that this will shift him to Chaotic Neutral if he continues, but he says that he has to act more evil before he can shift there. I believe, if he’s just doing whatever the heck he wants, then that’s not Chaotic Good and therefore he’s going to end up shifting, even if he’s not doing acts of evil. 

What do you think I should do? 

Smashing quest items and losing your temper don’t necessarily mean you aren’t Lawful Good.  Everybody has bad days, so a few outbursts aren’t necessarily problematic.  What really matters is his pattern of behavior and how his deity responds to it.  If his pattern of behavior is shifting to a more consistent irrational basis (and it isn’t cute & endearing irrational behavior like Don Quixote), then his connection with his deity should be used to get him back on course.  Any powers that are granted by his connection with his deity should be diminished if she doesn’t like the way he is acting.  She may even come down and have a talk with him (depending on his level & importance to her).

Like another commenter said, it really sounds like it’s just lazy roleplaying.  If that’s the case, have a conversation out-of-game with the player to ensure their character concept is still what it used to be and that they have a firm grip on it.  If they want to change it, provide them an avenue in-game to justify the change in character.  Alignment isn’t immutable, and your game’s plot should hopefully have some effect on the players.  If that effect alters their original alignment they shouldn’t be punished but rewarded for good roleplay.  If, on the other hand, they just want to be wacky misfit murder hobos, then perhaps the world and its deities need to start reacting to them accordingly.

The DM struggle

w1ldc4rd:

Most PC’s don’t understand that a GM will spend hours building a single quest so it will not only fit the campaign and characters, but also cover every conceivable contingency they can think of. Only for the group to exploit a minor loophole to force the GM to improvise in an attempt to salvage a crumbling session.

In other news, my new favorite threat is “if you do that again I will make you fight something with a proper name.”

That’s not so much “The Struggle” as it is “What it means to be a GM.”

It’s all improvisation.  All of it.  The second you think you are prepared, you have already lost.

wizarddevon:

Quick, guys, I need your help! I need to make a level 12 Pathfinder character by Sunday, and I have absolutely no inspiration. Please throw character ideas at me! As far as I know everything is on the table.

(Please no Sticked-Ass-Paladins, Smelly Bards, non-smelly bards, traditional clerics, or anyone who’s main tactic involves booze, drugs, sex, rock and roll - just to further alienate bards- or improvised weapons)

A few ideas I’ve kept in my hip-pocket for the next time I play:

  • A halfling rogue with a hefty bounty on his head, so he walks on stilts and disguises himself as an elf.
  • A ranger or druid who hates all non-animal species, but in a passive-agressive sort of way so instead of “talking” to the other members of his group, simply “talks” to his pet crow animal companion.  (“Oh I know Mr. Jimbles, they SHOULD pick the door on the right, but they probably won’t because they’re smelly humans.”)
  • A Lawful Good Cleric or Paladin who values obedience above all else, and so will not refuse any non-violent command.  This would be REALLY hard as a player, but I think the dynamic would fun: to show complete and abject humility, obedience, and deference to the others members in the group.  Not a holier-than-thou cleric, but more a mother Theresa type.
  • A Wizard with a recurring hallucination/vision of somebody from his tragic past.  Nobody else sees/hears the other person and probably assumes he’s talking to a familiar or something.  The Wizard is aware that the specter is not real, but feels compelled to talk to them if unless he makes a successful Will Save (25).  The vision’s words, actions, and personality are completely controlled by the GM, and they CAN effect the Player Character in the form of pushing, shoving, or light damage.  The vision could potentially be of somebody that isn’t actually dead, as they are the product of the Wizard’s imagination.  (Character concept primarily inspired by Gaius Baltar from Battlestar Galactica).
  • An elf based not on Tolkien and D&D tropes like awesome woodland archer, but rather instead based on Buddy the Elf, an Adorable Good Tinkerer who loves syrup, singing, giving hugs, and smiles.  (I’ve always wanted to see a character whose charisma is low not because they’re always gruff and grumpy and make people uncomfortable, but because they’re always smiling and happy and make people uncomfortable.)

geekgirlsmash:

lawfulgoodness:

corruptionpoints:

lawfulgoodness:

charliezardrps:

not all character development exists to make someone a better person

people turn into assholes, too. They become more  manipulative, arrogant, clingy, irritated… complex.

and that’s okay, that’s important.

explore that.

✧・゚:*✧・゚:* \(◕‿◕✿)/ *:・゚✧*:・゚✧

image

I’ll respectfully disagree with you on this, LG!

As you stated in tags, “I don’t want to be around jerks in real life, why would I want to hang out with them in my fantasy worlds?” which is a fair an valid point to make. However, I think it is disingenuous of a story to exist in a world where everyone becomes a better person. 

I’m right on board with you on how I also want to see heroes win, and not feel silly about wanting heroes to win. I love Superman stories, i don’t think they’re boring. I get tired of the constant gritty filter that tends to wash over  heroes to engender a greater sense of realism.

However, and this is where i disagree, it would be an alternate form of filter to say that all people only get better in the same manner that “gritty filter” makes people only get worse.

I think that drawing into either direction too heavily isn’t a great option. Some people turn into jerks through their reactions and involvements and perspectives on events around their lives, both fictional or real. Some other people decide that being around jerks is lame, because it is lame, and decide to move on without them. 

That is where I would find complexity. If a group of characters came up from the same starting point, and went through the same interactions, but character A takes it one way (developed into a jerk) and character B takes it another (developed into a non-jerk), it would make for a fully-rounded and complex story. Some folks are Magnetos, and some folks are Xaviers. 

I gotta say, I was really REALLY pleased with my post.  Even now, scrolling up and looking at it there, it really makes me laugh.

I know there are other ways to play and folks are welcome to play like that.  My main problem is with using the words “development” or “growth” to describe someone becoming more and more of a jackass.  

That’s not development.  That’s regression.

This isn’t something I really feel that strongly about.  I’m primarily just pleased with my use of Grumpy Cat in response to the smiley sparkles of the OP.  Although that probably makes me a jerk and negates the point I was trying to make.  :D

Developing a picture just revealed what it was, it doesn’t mean that what you saw was going to be pretty. Develop has meanings good, bad, and neutral depending on context. You can develop an illness, for example. Even in fiction, a plot development is just something important happening or changing for good or ill, why not extend that to characters?

Growth can be a euphemism for a tumor, things can grow into destructive forces. A little boy can grow into a monster, just as easily as he can grow into his clothes. 

Neither of those words denote only positive things. 

Yeah, but I also don’t want to roleplay growing tumors or illnesses.  That sounds both icky AND boring.

Same with PCs becoming more and more jackassy.

Even kings have a shelf of knick-knacks.

velonese - the one major takeaway from the investigation of the royal palace after an assassination. (via velonese)

Enough with the “Zombie Jesus” jokes

dm-lorati:

lawfulgoodness:

It clearly states resurrection.  ”Resurrect” doesn’t work on undead, constructs, or elementals.  Or if it was “Raise Dead” then he still couldn’t have ever been undead.

So enough with the Zombie Jesus.  It’s trite, unoriginal, and clearly inaccurate.

Happy Easter everybody!

It’s unlikely that anyone that witnessed this so called “resurrection” actually had ranks in spellcraft or even Knowledge (Religion).

image

(No idea what the original source is - I pulled it from reddit, and image search shows waaaay too many results.)