We really need to talk about this scene a lot, because holy wow. The MCU movies have definitely been getting a little darker since the Avengers, and Iron Man 3 was definitely the grimmest of that particular trilogy so far, but scenes like this? This is pure optimism. Tony is told he can save 4 out of 13, and then he saves all 13 of them anyway, because these people can work together and help Tony save them.
If a similar scenario had happened in the Dark Knight Saga or Man of Steel, you know damn well 9 out of those 13 people would have been dead. Hell, Bruce or Clark would have been lucky to even save the 4, because DC movies have gone down a route of unrelenting grtty realism that makes good old super heroics virtually impossible. Bruce can’t save the city without faking his own death; Clark can’t save the world without becoming a murderer.
But even in the darkest hours of the Marvel Universe, Tony Stark can damn well save 13 people plummeting to their certain death. Is it realistic? Hell no. But it was an awesome victory that both Tony and the audience needed at this point in the story, and by god it was heroic.
DC has forgotten the reason these people are called superheroes.
#MCU#DC movies#grimdark is for lazy storytellers
I’d say DC has forgotten the reason these people are called heroes.
I call bull shit on Superman’s super speed not being able to save all 13.
It’s not an issue of whether or not Superman’s powers would be able to save all 13. It’s the fact that the way the DC movies are going, the writers would decide to have 9 of them die for “dramatic tension” or “plot development” or “gritty realism.”
Superman could save all 13 of them. DC just wouldn’t let him.
The reason DC’s movies have a darker tone set to them is because DC comics are dark in general. Marvel comics has lighter, good bs evil, good always wins, hope and justice and all that rainbows and butterfly’s stuff. Because that’s how they want their characters to be. DC takes a real approach to their comics. The whole DC universe is dark and grim. The back story’s are all filled with death and destruction. So of coarse their movies are going to be the same as the comics. Batman and superman understand that not everyone can live. DC takes a realistic approach to everything they do. So please don’t talk about how dark and grim DC’s movies are unless you have picked up a bloody comic and read if cover to cover. I’m a fan of both companies so I’m not talking out my ass here.
a) Shame on you for trying to nerd-shame someone for their opinion. Stan Lee would be ashamed of you.
b) Anybody gets to talk about their opinion of anything, including DC movies or otherwise, on their own personal blog. They have no obligation to provide receipts for what comic books they’ve read just to somehow “legitimize” their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with a movie franchise.
c) There is no “fake nerd” or “fake comic book opinion,” only bullies who act like they’ve got it all figured out. I give absolutely zero Rob Liefeld foot sketches which companies you’re a fan of. You have 0 authority to negate any person’s interpretation of the media they enjoy (or don’t enjoy).
c) I’ve spent over $150 on comic books in the past two weeks. I’m fully aware of the grimdark joykilling DC is doing. You better believe not a dime of that money went to “Forever Evil,” but I do still pick up a stack of other DC books, hoping that some writer somewhere in my pull list will stop mistreating characters I love.
d) YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT. The universes DC is shilling right now are not the universes many of us know and love. From pre-Crisis fans to pre-New52 fans, from Batman:The Animated Series fans to Young Justice fans, from mullet!Superman fans to Wally West fans, DC is going out of its way in both its movie and comic book writing to ostracize people who prefer the inspirational archetypes of its past to the joyless angst-ridden rage-monsters of its present.
Like, your post is so wrong-headed, ignorant, and mean-spirited that I don’t even have time to explain to you all the ways you’re missing the historical deconstruction of DC versus Marvel heroes and archetypes.
Hold your divine horses there paladin,
(Sorry, just wanted to lead with that)
Long time follower of yours btw.
The post defending DC is clearly making some sparks fly, so before any punches are thrown let’s just try to calm ourselves. (Brief apologies to youarenotaloneoutthere, your blog name is so long I’m not typing it more than once.)
Okay getting into things… yanaot’s post wasn’t really mean spirited, ignorant, or “wrong-headed”. They actually don’t even make an argument for one side or another. The post just explains that currently there is a trend in DC comics towards darker storylines (Something which is debatable, but won’t be addressed right now), As such, the movies are affected by this trend. The comment about picking up a DC book and reading it comes from the fact that many DC and marvel fans are very set in whichever camp they belong. This leads to the belief that fans who prefer one or the other don’t give time to read the other side’s comics. Yanaot has no way of knowing whether or not this is true of OP or not. The comment itself is an inevitability in these kinds of arguments, and really not important in the grand scheme of the discussion.
What’s more is that debating the quality of Marvel vs DC has been going on since the companies were founded, there is absolutely nothing wrong with debating someone about their differing opinions. Especially when it comes to something like fandoms or interpretations. Having these discussions (that’s a Euphemism) is what makes our appreciation for the material grow and change over time.
This next bit is really just nitpicking:
Yanaot’s argument is somewhat weak because it assumes that OP isn’t familiar with any material on the DC side of the aisle. It’s also flawed because it generalizes DC and Marvel’s writing to one extreme and the other. LG’s argument is flawed because: (And note, I’m not listing them like this to be an ass, but to follow the same format that LG used in their post)
A.) There was no real ‘nerd shaming’ going on. And more likely than not Stan Lee doesn’t really pay attention to any of this
B.) You’re right about this one. But part of blogs is sharing all of those things with the rest of the internet. So if you put an opinion up on tumblr, especially in a form which hates in one direction or another, be prepared to discuss that opinion and debate the thought process behind it.
C.) Everyone acts like they’ve got it all figured out. I’m doing it right now, you do it in your argument, OP did it in their’s. And if you chalk up OP’s argument to ‘expressing an opinion’ then you have to give that same description to everyone else involved here.
C2.) You say above that him reading both companies doesn’t give Yanaot any kind of authority or credibility. That’s probably true, it doesn’t count for all that much. But if you want to go with the whole ‘no comic book fan pissing contests’ then your investments into comic books don’t strengthen your argument.
D,) The arguments you give in A-C2 are about nerd shaming, not about trends in comic book writing. That said Yanaot didn’t exactly prove your point. They didn’t even prove a point accidentally, as they fully admitted that there was a dark trend in DC writing (an argument as I’ve said I would debate another time). On top of that, DC isn’t deliberately ostracizing anyone. They’re hardly so malicious. And that’s giving people too much credit. DC and Marvel publish what writers write. If a writer wants to write darker stuff then that’s what goes on paper. What’s more the company just follows market trends. If Market research shows that darker stories are what people are reading/watching in theaters. then that’s what’s going to be written. Writer style, Director style, Market trends. All play an infinitely larger factor in what gets done than some kind of conspiracy about hurting the fans.
That’s all I’ll say for now, as I’m fighting the temptation to launch into my second debate about the dark writing trends in DC comics and films. TLDR is that we are all fans of this stuff. Debating and discussing these things is a part of that. No one on either side should get upset when these discussions happen.
So let’s everyone chillax before people start losing all of their class features.
Bah! A measured, reasonable response? booo! It’s not even funny.
It’s just… all…. calm and… pleasant.
Continuing the format!
a) I disagree that there was no nerd-shaming. You don’t tell someone to “pick up a bloody comic book and read it” unless you think they haven’t. It was rather clearly stating, “You’re talking out of your ass, but I’m not. Because I know DC comic books better than you.” That is nerd-shaming. That is saying that you have to read the comic books for your opinion on the movies to matter, and that is categorically false.
b) Anybody is should be ready for a dissenting opinion if they place their opinion in the public sphere. They should not have to deal with “You don’t know what you’re talking about because you don’t read comic books.” Sure, people can do that. They just shouldn’t.
c) [I kept changing the order of my points and obviously didn’t proofread enough. I’m just glad I didn’t say “Points a,b,3,5,q”] The problem isn’t in thinking/acting like you’ve got it figured out. The problem is being a bully about it.
c2) My comic book investment doesn’t impact the validity of the other points. That’s why I moved it further down the list (and caused the numbering error). My intent was to say, not only is it okay if people who don’t read comic books think differently than you, but even people who do read comic books think differently than you.
d) I supposed it is unclear what I meant when I said he proved my point. I didn’t not mean that he proved my points a-c2. I meant he proved the point I was complaining about in my previous posts: That DC’s universe is darker, less friendly, more grimdark place than the MCU (and I would argue even darker than it used to be, but I don’t mind punting on that topic for now). The response to my posts was, “Stop complaining about how dark the DC movies are. Go pick up a comic book. THOSE are dark.” And that’s exactly my point: IT’S ALL GRIMDARK ANGSTY WHINEFESTS AND I MISS AWESOME PEOPLE DOING AWESOME THINGS AND BEING AWESOME, LIKE THIS SCENE IN IRON MAN 3. Also, I’m not sure DC isn’t intentionally ostracizing it’s own fans. I mean, their fans were saying they really wanted Oracle to come back in the New 52, and DC hinted and teased and said, “Okay, check out the upcoming Superman!” and it turned out to be mini-Galactus or whatever. Their executive leadership regularly dismisses, not just ignores but dismisses, fan requests for well-loved but shelved characters. And that’s not even getting into Goyer’s recent remarks mocking a roomful of fan that love Martian Manhunter (as well as misogyny, but that’s another topic).
I get that grimdark is selling right now and I know businesses go with what sells. I’m not saying every decision they make is to spite the fans. But they are leaving many fans on the roadside as they speed off in their dark and gritty direction. There’s no reason for the folks happy to be in the car, fans or corporate leadership, to mock those of us left behind.